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Saving Your Points

Saving Your Points
Posted by jja15 (VIP) Jan 14 2006 3:23PM

Is anyone else here as surprised as I am that if you are in the number 1 ladder spot you can save all your points so that if someone else knocks you off your perch, guess what? All you have to do is play 1 more game and you get moved back up to number 1!!! I for one think that this isn't the way to run a ladder. With the way Ladder points are doled out you could put a stranglehold on number 1 for quite some time, This is an example of an unwritten rule because this is NOT stated anywhere in the rules and now is being quoted as the spirit of the rules. I think it stinks and should be changed immediately. Why are the rules 'Unwritten?'

NOT a new Ladder rule...
Posted by webmaster Jan 14 2006 3:45PM

ANSWER CORRECTED The Ladder rules ( http://www.gamecolony.com/ladder_rules.shtml ) have always stated that upon conversion of Ladder Points to 1 Ladder rung advancement the Ladder points will start again at zero. 'After the step-up, the Ladder Points will start again at zero.' This statement was just corrected to the very similar one: 'After the step-up, the Ladder Points will reduced by 30 points'. As the player in #1 spot cannot possibly have a Ladder rung step-up (advancement), it was previously pointed out to us that it is unfair (and against the above rule) to zero out Ladder points for the player in #1 spot without a corresponding one Ladder rung advancement. To conform to the letter and the spirit of the Ladder rules, the Ladder Points for the player in the 1st spot are now NOT zeroed out as long as #1 spot is retained. Instead, the Ladder Points keep accumulating the same way they did before. However, when this #1 player drops in Ladder rank, just as with any other player who accumulated Ladder Points, the very next Ladder Point will result in 1 Ladder rung advancement (at the cost of 30 Ladder Points). In other words, the player in number #1 spot is not treated any differently than any other player. 30 Ladder points are converted to one Ladder advancement. The rest of the points are zeroed out. This is not a new rule -- it's a clarification regarding the existing Ladder points for #1 spot -- it logically follows from the existing rules. To avoid confusion, however, the above clarification has now been written into Ladder rules. (You may have to refresh the Ladder rules' page depending on how your web browser deals with cached static pages.)

Not so i say
Posted by jja15 (VIP) Jan 14 2006 4:35PM

I understand that you are trying to be fair by allowing the number 1 player to keep their points but to what end? The number 1 player today had over 70 and after dropping to 2 for a moment played another game and immediately moved back to number 1 but the points were not 'zeroed' out as you say but instead were only reduced to the 40's so therefore the same thing can happen over and over again. This is what is not fair and needs to be 'rewritten' into the rules.

Per your input, the answer was corrected
Posted by webmaster Jan 14 2006 5:08PM

Per your input, I have corrected the detailed answer above as well as changed the rules' clarification. Just as the first placed Ladder player can keep accumulating Ladder Points with frequent playing, so can others. The end result is provide the exact same cost for potential one Ladder rung advancement (30 Ladder Points) for the 1st player as compared to all other players. In your example, after the 1st placed player (with 70 Ladder Points) was dropped, after the next advancement the Ladder Points stood at 40.

ladder points
Posted by remo760 (VIP) Jan 14 2006 5:07PM

hi, i have met old rule was crazy - when i become no#1 i must collect 29 points and then wait with games wich could add more points but today i cant understand , trixter , why you didnt fight for 1st ladder position and have gave time for collecting 70(!) ladder points? lol thanks

Once again a flawed plan
Posted by jja15 (VIP) Jan 14 2006 5:15PM

I understand what you are trying to accomplish. However, the person who gets to number one like now need only sit around and wait for everyone else to use up their move ups(which by the way they will automatically get at 30 points, so as you can see everyone can't store points, only the number 1 spot.) Then they need to play only one game and like magic, they are number 1 again. This is the injustice in the system. I agree that they should be able to store points for 1 move like everyone else, but you are allowing them an endless supply which everyone else cannot do.

Endless supply of Ladder Points?
Posted by webmaster Jan 14 2006 5:24PM

Each time the Ladder rank advancement occurs, 30 Ladder Points get subtracted from a player. All players are treated the exact same way. First placed player just as others has to work the same way to get those Ladder Points.

Just not gettin it
Posted by jja15 (VIP) Jan 14 2006 6:02PM

If I am a player from number 2 through infinity, when I get to 30 points I move up and my points go away. Now if I am number 1 and get to 30 points, I just keep collecting points. If I get to 60 and am still 1 I keep collecting points so in effect you are allowing me to fall out of the 1 spot and move right back in. Now explain to me what is the sense in number 2 playing number 1 in that situation? If 2 wins they are still 2. This really can't be what you had in mind. This is a terribly unfair situation to all those on the ladder who are trying to move up.

LOL
Posted by webmaster Jan 14 2006 6:16PM

Your example fails to account for the following very simple scenario: If both #1 & #2 keep collecting Ladder Points AT THE SAME RATE, both #2 & #1 are treated the exact same way. The trick is to keep accumulating these points... For the same 1 rung advancement the cost is still the same - 30 points. If you believe that you have discovered a magically endless supply of Ladder points for #1 - then we have a Perpetuum Mobile here...

Not an endless supply
Posted by jja15 (VIP) Jan 14 2006 6:24PM

The piece of the puzzle that you do not account for is that if number 1 has 70 points(like today) and plays number 2 who has 30 points, then who is number 1 at that point? Does 2 move up a rung and then immediately get supplanted by 1? If this is the case then it will keep happening everytime 2 gets back to 29 points since 1 still has 40 points to play with plus what they earn.

The initial conditions need to be similar...
Posted by webmaster Jan 14 2006 7:24PM

In your example you set up unequal initial situations for the players. If the playerA is placed #1 on the Ladder and has 70 points, that means the following: (1) PlayerA worked hard enough and was skillfull enough to get to be #1 (2) PlayerA, in addition, played sufficient number of qualifying $Ticket games to deserve 70 Ladder points Player B (#2 initially got just 30 points & spot #2) -- initially lacked both of the advantages that PlayerA worked hard for. PlayerB was 'slacking off' initially and did not get either sufficient LadderPoints or ranking. Hence, if both players keep accumulating points at the same rate, it will be hard for PlayerB to catch up. PlayerB will have to work twice as hard now to catch up... We do not believe that this relatively simple matter deserved as much or our time and attention in the Forum as it did. As we don't believe that this dead horse will benefit from any further flogging, at this time this Forum topic is closed. If, for some reason, someone has any further inquiries on this matter, we'd suggest to address them via Contact Us.

Disagree with Trixter
Posted by MagicGames (TD) Mar 21 2006 4:52PM

I will approach this from the other end. Trixster-- you want to penalize the #1 player unfairly but not allowing his ladder pts to accumulate. The whole point of these ladder pts is to reward the tix players for their many $5 tix or more ladder matchs. Therefore once you reach 30 you move up a spot and 30 ladder pts are removed. If u are number 1 u cannot move up a ladder spot so you "must" accumulate the ladder pts you have earned so u can move up that one spot. To say u can't save the points would therefore not reward all the 5TIX or more ladder games played, which would be a penalty instead of a reward that all other players get. Why penalize the #1 player just so others can pass him/her when she/he has earned those points just as well as anyone else? When u say magically with one more game back to first place. Nothing magical about it he/she has earned those pts but had nowhere to go. The key is to try and win it and drop #1 until they are used up. Not an easy task but getting to number one is not easy anyway as u know. Staying there just got easier but will require many 5 tix games to get that extra "insurance"--so there is a cost. As with everyone, a one spot advance will cost 30 points whenever it is used. IT is the same for eveyone. You have that right and challenge just as anyone else does and once #1 see if u can stay there the best way u can. Play another 30 games for the 1 spot insurance and another 30 for a 2 spot insurance but everyone alse can earn a spot advance with 30 games--win or lose. No one is penalized. U already knew this but u see nothing wrong with penalizing the #1 player and I am saying that is unfair and this system treats everyone the same--when u advance u remove 30 ladder points.

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